All right. So, here is simple presentation I made. Um. 
Okay, connect the Wi-Fi real quick. So, for my capstone, I, I wanted to find a way to encode the very, like, the very energy of the event, like the crowd data into an interactive installation. Okay. 
So that's my main goal. I'm gonna have a network of, um, webcams set up, all connected to my PC, and they're gonna be collecting, um, date on the crowd, like running camera vision, um, detecting how many people, the movement, the amount of sound. That sort of thing. 
And then setting all of that, um, all that data to, uh, like a central server that I have, and then touch designer using a metrics dat, I think, is the name of the operator. It's just gonna scrape that every like 2nd. and use that data to feed a parameter rise simulation. Okay. 
And I want that simulation to be a forest. This is like some of my inspiration. I really like the idea of, um, like, in terms of the experience of the insulation, looking at a terrarium of some sort, but the terrarium in the life of the terrarium being the very, like, energy of the expo, like I said. 
So, imagine this forest being totally alive with tons of movement. Um, and then, you know, That's what would happen, like, if a lot of people were in the installation, I would see that activity kind of go up, and then they walk away, it'll kind of go back to some sort of quiescence state where not as much as happened. Exactly, yeah. 
So at the beginning of the X moment, there's not a lot of people, it'll be really barren. And then, you know, at the peak, a number of people at the expo, it'll be very lively. you know, maybe like waterfall is flowing and all that stuff. So here's like a very simple mockup I threw together. 
This is a CAD model I made of the Atlas building. So this is the 1st floor, B one, B2. And, um, I kind of identified like where the most people would be. 
So this is like the main atrium, the B2, the black box, I mean, et cetera, et cetera. So, I would love for this CAD model to be, like, animated and, like, growing foliage, and the foliage fades away eventually, and all that sort of stuff, and then you have the, like, the live data from the cameras, kind of being displayed, so it's sort of technical, and has that sort of technical aesthetic, but also being kind of pretty. Yeah, regardless. 
That's just the general idea. But I, you know, in my research with touch designers so far, it seems like it's really good at moving data around, but, um, doing actual 3D animations is kind of hard. Yeah, that would be my feeling too, sort of. 
I mean, I feel like, you know, certainly it has all those, you know, surface operators and stuff like that. That is for 3D render, for sure. But, um, I do almost wonder, I don't know if you've worked with, like, you know, something like unity very much or anything like that, but, like, you know, kind of building an actual 3D world that's going to have different assets that can, you know, um, um, you know, like, you just kind of mention the idea of a bush growing or something like that. 
I wonder if that would be, in fact, a bit easier, just because there's going to be so many different assets kind of out there in, like, in the unity world. Like there's a, you know, this asset store and there's all sorts of kind of components, a lot of them that are free that you can use to kind of help build out like a 3D world like that. especially if you're really going in this direction of like having this sort of actual, you know, more, you know, less abstract type of representation of what's going on. Like, you know, you're kind of thinking in like almost like a video game, 3D world type thing, I feel like. 
I don't know, have you worked with Unity at all? No, but last semester when, you know, uh, in the RMBP class where we're researching all the different options and trying to pin down an idea for the capstone, I considered unity and blender and touch designer, but I landed on Touch Designer because it seems like it's the best equipped for taking in data live and having that data affect the visuals live. It seems like unity is kind of limited in that aspect. 
Oh, well, so not necessarily, though, because something like unity is gonna definitely be able to receive OSC messages, so that OSC is, stands for open sound, sound control, but all's it really is, is a way to quickly send a message that's usually, you know, some sort of text that defines what the message is and some sort of hierarchy. Like, let's say you had a world. And then you have things like plants in that world and then maybe creatures in that world. 
You could send, um, you could have, you know, and possibly touch designer would still be a really good choice in terms of like using, um, uh, some different kind of given the details that I'm in, but touches aren't might be the place where it'd be really good to do the the people county and things like that. But then once you have something like that going on and touch designer, to send those numbers, essentially, to a unity program is pretty straightforward, and it would probably involve this OSC protocol I'm talking about. And also, and again, OSC is literally sending a text message with numbers attached to it. 
And, um, it uses UDP networking, so that's networking that's gonna work on any type of IP network, but it's faster because it doesn't try to do this sort of handshake that normal internet type stuff does. And so, like, down here, we use that constantly because, like, pretty much every program in the world is sort of designed to get OSC. So like projection software is designed to get SC Daws or design. 
Okay. a design to receive OSC. So it's kind of where, um, interactive glue, inter application interactive glue, really kind of depends on who I see a lot in my experience. And so, yeah, I think that that would be, um, you know, especially if you felt like you could get to the point where you're kind of, um, creating these 3D worlds in unity, the idea of getting the data to it is something I'm certain you'll be able to handle. 
And I would be willing to kind of show you that when you got to that point. Um, one question I also have is, yeah, 'cause, I mean, I agree with you that, like, you know, what's missing in touch designer, I'm not saying you can't, you can create 3D things like this, but you really have to kind of build it. From the ground up, while in unity, there's definitely, like, these assets, you know, like, there's an asset store where, you know, someone's already kind of built. some sort of plant thing that can grow. and things like that. 
And so then you could kind of concentrate because that's like, this is an ambitious project. And like just the idea of sort of being able to actually count people and, you know, identify activity in various ways is like a pretty huge thing in and of itself. You know, I think. 
Um, So, um, have you thought much about that side of it too? Like, if you looked at, like, um, some really great thing that's in touch or that you can use with touch designer is Media Pipe. Have you looked at that yet? 
Yeah, so I already have the, like, all the detection. Oh, okay, great. I have a separate repository on the VS code that, um, detects the number of webcams that's plugged into the PC and, uh, runs all of the people detection on parallel threads and then just pushes that to a server here so that it's just online. 
The reason I did this is because, um, What did you use to do that? Is that what my... think it's open TV. Okay, so it's just a straight open scene. 
Yeah. The reason I did this is because the interactive installations usually are down in the subbasement, this floor. Um, whereas the the juiciest data for my project would be up on the 1st floor and, you know, running running a webcam wire up 2 floors is kind of challenging. 
So I was toying with the idea of having a separate node, this laptop, for example, running one or 2 webcams, and then since that's on the internet, I can scrape it easily and wirelessly. Yeah, so I have I have that part set up. It's not necessarily Sunstone, but, um, Yeah, I didn't realize touches on it was able to do that as well, but regardless. 
Yeah, so I mean, there's this library called Media Pipe that Google made that, you know, has Python, C plus + APIs, but also there's a really nice plug-in and touch designer for it. Right. as well. But if you already kind of have that going in straight open CV, that's gonna probably, you're threading it and everything, you're probably ahead of the game. 
I think that's gonna be better. Yeah, really, though, my advice is just don't, yeah, you can certainly get dated into unity. Like, it's not a problem. 
Like, um, um, and, uh, you know, uh, yeah, I wouldn't let that stop you because it's certainly, like, that OSC protocol, and it's barely a protocol. I mean, it's just kind of a way of kind of, it's for interapplication, communication, essentially, on a network. And so, I mean, there's some things to think. 
I mean, you know, there's some networking things to think about, because if you're gonna have, you know, machines upstairs, you know, you will probably need to use, uh, you know, I think OSC works on the normal network now. It used to not, you know, like, they would block that sort of traffic. So we want to double check that again. 
But to me, it's like if you already have this server that's sort of, you know, from understanding, right, you might have these clients that are connected to webcams and then they're sitting in that data to a server. Is that correct? those lines. 
I'm I'm trying to avoid using the Wi-Fi. My initial idea was to have like small modules everywhere, like little ESP 32s. Oh, okay. that, um, you know, were easily dispersed and then just were through Wi-Fi, but I realized that those are not able to connect to the CU secure Wi-Fi, the new Wi-Fi protocol, uh, or if they are, it's extremely difficult, and I ran into processing power limitations, which is my next big limitation, like, um, I'm planning on using my PC, which is not bad, but I have a really updated GPU, and I spoke to Danny. 
Um, and he, Annie told me that he might have some gaming PCs that were like purchased by that was for this purpose, for like C projects, but, um, he said that that's not an option anymore. So, um, that's why I kind of wanted to separate the the people detection and the touch designer, just to make sure my PC could actually run it all smoothly to some extent. Um, I mean, it ends with the visualization of this, the actual terrarium I need, that would be down here is the idea, right? 
Yeah. And just on a screen or projected or something like that. And so, you know, ultimately, um, you know, that's sort of like where, you know, that's where you would want your PC, I feel like. 
Exactly. You know, and that's gonna be connected to whatever's displaying it. You know, yeah, you know, um, I, I mean, right now, my main advice would definitely be that I feel like kind of building this much of the 3D world and touch design, while totally possible, just kind of, you know, touch design is really about kind of live interactive visuals, you know what I mean? 
And, and, you know, audio reactivity and interactivity and detecting people's emotions and stuff like that. And yeah, I don't really see like full 3D kind of, you know, some, because I mean, to me, this is very much video games in world space. Oh, man. 
Um, And I think all these issues of like how you get the data to, to a machine down here, you know, can certainly be worked out, but it's an interesting point. I forgot about, I definitely have never tried, um, um, doing this OSC thing, like on CU guest even, for instance, but maybe that's what we should try to see if that's possible. But I mean, um, I don't know, like, what, since it doesn't sound like you made a huge investment, touch designer, yeah, right? 
Not that big. Not an investment. Yeah, yeah. 
And, uh, and uh, in terms of unity or experience, there is sort of the same, like you haven't... I've never seen it. Okay, so I mean, it, you know, and again, I'm certain not like a huge unity Liz either, but like, it is very accessible, I feel like, just because it's so popular. 
I'm sure there's. And there is just so many. It's like anything you've thought of somebody's probably done it and there's an example of it. 
You know, and I just think you'll get a bunch better results of things like, you know, like, like there's things called L systems. you know? Of course. Yeah. 
So, I mean, there's definitely support for crap like that in unity and like nice kind of prepackaged things that would immediately accomplish these things you're thinking about, I feel like, in terms of like that, you know, kind of simulation. You know, it's really kind of built for that. So, yeah, I don't know. 
Like, I think, like, kind of, I, yeah, I feel like in such designer, like, you could certainly make something that's a bit more abstract, that is, like, you know, responding to all this data, and it definitely is really well designed for that sort of thing. But to get to this kind of full 3D kind of model. I mean, it can do that stuff. 
I mean, I have some stuff in the black box where we, you know, have a small model of the room, but I mean, it's pretty, you know, it doesn't look cool or anything. It's functional. It's being used to do light tracking. 
Right. And it's gonna snow like that. So it's possible, but I just feel like that that's, it's a lot of work to, like, I don't know that I've ever seen, like, a truly 3D, really nice, you know, certainly kind of just a simple visualization of some sort, but like, like something more close to a video game, that's something I don't think I think I've seen the touch designer words so much. 
And, and again, I'll just stress like that I, you know, the, the, uh, OSC that opens sound control thing is, you know, I've used that unity a lot. You know, it's like, you know, we have that MoCap system in there. And, you know, we need to like get that MoCap data into unity so that, you know, I can have an object that's being tracked in the room and attach that to a camera and unity or something like that. 
That's how that's happening. It's happening, we OSC. So the data is just being sent to the program and it really is like, OSC is just going to be like a simple library. 
You know, there's going to be a library in unity for doing that and you can simply have, you know, a listener or something that's listening for, I see messages and parsing them out based on those addresses. So it has this kind of address structure, kind of like URLs, basically. And it's totally up to you to decide what that is, but the reason it's that way is because it kind of tends to represent like a hierarchical data structure of some sort. 
So like with the MOCAP data, for instance, you have, you know, individual 3D points that are being tracked. So that will be like a whole kind of set of messages that exist. then you have things called like the 6 degrees of freedom tracking, which is a more complex object, so that has its own sort of address. You see what I'm saying? 
So you kind of have these different kind of types of data and it's totally user-refined. You're just making this shit up and saying, okay, this is what the message is. the numbers I'm expecting. And then when I get them, I do something with them. 
And because it uses UDP instead of TCP, it's fast. It just, like, TCPIP tries to correct and stuff like that. It does error correction, all this stuff. 
UDP doesn't do that. I just sense, sense, sense, and the other thing receives a great if it doesn't, it has no idea. But it works well. 
Like we use it for real-time stuff down here all the time. So yeah, that was right now that would really be my advice. I really think that, like, the barrier of getting this data into unity is small. 
And but the barrier is kind of creating a real kind of simulated 3D world and touch designers, maybe a bit bigger. you know. Is there any way I could combine some of that functionality? Because I do eventually also want you active audio. 
Mm hmm. I was thinking, uh, you know, having a camera within whatever room, my installation is in, and having, like, different poses that the people do have different audios or so it's more of like an immersive forest, like, um, that sort of thing. Maybe the... 
Yeah, I don't know. Like, would that... Hmm. 
I mean, even, like, things like audio reactivity and stuff like that is not that kind of hard to do in unity because you could use that OSC protocol to get data set to it, you know what I mean? And so it really just kind of comes down like, you know, imagine if you have this an L system and, you know, you're detecting some frequency range of audio somewhere, just maybe just overall volume. And because the volume gets beyond some threshold, it makes the thing grow. 
Like you literally would just have code that's like sort of waiting to get, that's getting those messages and waiting for the numbers to hit the threshold and then that triggers whatever needs to happen in terms of, you know, the unity response. What if instead of having, like, true growth and like you said, L systems and sort of this hyper realistic forest, what if it was just imported 3D models of trees and foliage and whatnot? And then I'm just like scaling them up based on numbers I have and like multiplying them. 
Yeah, yeah. Well, see, but again, like that's such a unity thing. like you would end up going in no time. I think in unity. 
I really do because, see, any sort of object in unity is gonna have a transform associated with it. which is gonna give you the ability to scale it. Um, move it, um, rotate it and everything else. It's just so much more 3D oriented than touch designer is, you know what I mean? 
You can go to D immunity, to be honest. But to me, like the touch designer, and again, my touches on are awesome. Like I think it's a really cool tool. 
I just feel like it's a little bit more better at like maybe something a little bit more abstract, which can be really cool too. Like, you can try to represent this stuff, but, you know, you've kind of already got a whole vision here, but I don't know that you can move away from. Like, I mean, I guarantee if you, if you just get unity on your computer, then like look up, you know, at the acid store, L system, plant model, you know, it's gonna exist. 
It's probably going to be free and you're going to be able to come and get that in there right away. And see what happens when you, um, you know, and again, maybe something like Touch Desire would be a really great, but since you're already kind of doing this thing and, um, open CB straight, it might just be, is that like a Python or some Python? Yeah, so I mean, you know, Python can do OSC immediately too. 
It's just a module. And, uh, uh, you know, like, um, you know, and they, I'm sure, I don't know how much you've been trying to use AI to do certain things at all, but like, you know, it's pretty easy to tell something like ChatGPT in this day and age, even just to like create an entire, you know, something like that media pipe system, for instance, to like, you know, uh, I've very successfully told her, okay, I want you to, you know, use the hand tracking and media pipe and then prepare that as, you know, prepare that data to be sent by OSC so I can specify the IP address. I'm sending it to, and it just fucking doesn't. 
It's like, that's how and it's simple. Like, you don't even necessarily need to have it do it. If you looked at the examples, you'd see, what it is too. 
But, yeah, I don't know, man. That's kind of my real thoughts on this is that I think you'd be surprised how quick you can get going on this in terms of unity. And then, you know, the other thing that maybe if the computer is really an issue, we do have a really good PC down there as well. 
You know, and so like the idea of kind of running this on that ultimately could be an option for you. Wow, that's great. Yeah. 
Part of expert, it sounds like, right? That's what you're aiming for. Okay. 
So, of course, I'm a complete beginner of immunity, but if I were to pit it, what would be the general, what would the architectural look like? Of course, I have the camera vision sort of separate, and I just have that living on, like a website, just with, uh, like, Jason values that are ready to be, uh, scraped, with that, would I need to change that in any way if I were to pivot? Um, you know, how would unity really be set up? 
Um, Um, well, so, like, I guess one thing to think of is like, okay, so you have this open CV, Python script that's detecting people and stuff like that, right? And then is it kind of formatting? Is that is that the server in a sense? 
Is it making the Jason data? Is that the pro program that's doing that? Yeah, I wish I could. 
Fortunately, it's all in my PC. I wish I could show you, but essentially, I just have this dashboard, um, which is basically just me trying to test it and see what it looks like. And then I have, um, what is this, is this like just visual studio code or what is this? Yeah, just in BSC. 
But if I have a, like a page in this website, uh, like slash metrics, um, where essentially it's just constantly updating, you know, line of code that just says, like, camera one, 2 people, camera, two, 3 people, whatever. Yeah. And so that's, in the end, does that mean that are you sort of using BS code where you're kind of spotting a local web server? 
Yeah, it's running in, like, a terminal. Um, okay, but so there isn't like a local, like when you're talking about into that metrics thing, that's not like a local, because, you know, VS code of time. Um, that made me more thinking about no Duck JS inside the S code, but so you're not using like a local web server or anything in terms of... 
I think I am. And now, it sounds like you are. not too updated on, like, the technical... Yeah, sounds like terminology. sounds like you are, like, that's what the dashboard would be. 
It's like you could go to a web browser and say, well, host, usually a number after that, but that represents the port it's running on. And then you have, you know, a URL that says where those metrics are or whatever. So, I mean, depending again, like, you know, that, again, this OSC stuff is so ubiquitous, you can have that in JavaScript, in a web browser, or a local web server running through PS code, and be sending and receiving that information too. 
And so literally, it sounds like to me there's probably a step, like, however you're kind of creating those Jason files, you either maybe you don't even need to create the Jason files and replace that with just sending a C directly to the unity program. You know, so it's like this thing detects a person, you know, and it sends the data about whatever that data happens to be. just kind of sense it directly to the to the unity program. So that could be another approach. 
So you don't necessarily need to do this step or like the unity program would need to actually, um, then again, you know, there's going to be JSON meters in unity too. So maybe if, again, how are you gonna get, you know? I would have to just see a little bit more about how you're kind of, um, either creating that Jason file or maybe you don't even need to do that, and you could just send the data directly. 
Because I mean, something that has to parse that, Jason, right? It has to read it and do something with it, which, you know, could also be something that a unity program can definitely do that too. But, like, where how is it getting in that file and stuff like that? 
that's kind of like on your, or maybe that, you know, everything's already reporting to that and that's just a file that's sitting in the project folder for the unity thing. Um, you know, like, I guess, you know, I'm still very convinced that that you'll get, like, in terms of the actual 3D visualization, you'll get, I think, a lot of leverage from community and then all this other stuff. I'm not saying it won't be things to figure out, but they're totally, they're definitely like doable. 
And it would just be a mess. Because, I mean, you could have your open CV Python script doing the OSC part where it's directly detecting the people, sending out. Injecting that directly to me. you're saying Exactly. like a loop running in the unity where it's literally listening, waiting to get that data, and it just gets it, you know, because it's just gonna be on the network now. 
Not only would it look better, it would be simpler and faster and probably more reliable. I think so. Yeah. 
And I just think that, you know, you'll get more sort of really, like, in terms of, like, impressive, like, effects in your simulation. Unity's gonna give you, give you that, I think, the most. And, you know, but that's the reason I'm mainly saying that is because you're, you know, you have these mockups and you're thinking about it as this sort of kind of, you know, 3D simulated world. 
Um, you know, and if you went to in a more abstract direction, then I would say, okay, yeah, touch designer's probably really great. You know what I mean? Where, if you were just sort of, you know, having more abstract type visualizations that represent, you know, like some sort of particle system, let's say, that has some sort of state to it that's, you know, has some sort of a kind of baseline state, and then when the activity increases, it becomes more something, you know, things like that, right? 
It's what I think of when I think of touch designer, you know what I mean? So something a little bit more abstract. Yeah, more like a VJ setup than... 
A little bit. Exactly. Exactly. 
I mean, and that's really kind of what touch designers kind of really used for is to create like these kind of real-time visuals with sound and other things like that. And unity really isn't that, you know, like, you know, watching down, you know, you have to get this program called Unity Hub, you have to create an account, but it's free. Yeah. 
And, you know, like, there's just very, you know, just to like get into it and have a 3D world where you can start dropping assets into something we could be doing within 30 minutes, in my opinion. Like, you know, you know, I watch tutorials online and stuff like that, but it's pretty, it's its own weird little world, but like, I think unity is more, um, approachable than like, um, unreal religion, for instance. Right. 
Just because unreal just has, and probably unreal is great too, once you learn the way they do things, but they have things like blueprints and all this stuff while unity is basically C sharp scripts, like you can just kind of, you know, write code to do various things you want it to do, but it also has a lot just kind of built, you know, there's a lot you can just do with the application itself too. Like, you know, people build all sorts of environments in it without ever writing any custom C sharp stuff. But that's kind of the main language, I think, that people, I think you can probably jump into anything in unity as well, but that's kind of the main connection there. 
Yeah, so I mean, you know, I think what a test you could do is like, you know, um, um, and it's kind of a very direct connection, but it's like if you already have this open CV thing going, and again, depending on what you're doing there, like whether or not you're kind of, because visual studio could, usually that's a JavaScript or node, though, that you use that external web browser, or web server, or local web server, excuse me. But that's not even necessarily, like, I think it wouldn't be so much work for you to even just, because here's another thing. OSC is gonna work on one computer too. 
You know, you don't have to be on a network to use it. You just use the local host address and then you pick a port that you want it to send to and listen on. And that's a number that you just pick and it, you know, has to be in a certain range or whatever. 
So it probably wouldn't be that hard to get the open CB Python script to like, you know, find an asset of some sort of thing and kind of just say what you 1st said. What if it's just a static bush? But when someone is detected by that, you want to increase the scale of it by a certain amount. 
You could literally have your open CV script just sending that on the same computer, just to the port that you specify, and you would have to create your own little unity script here, but see, there's gonna be what happens is you have like objects in unity, and then you can attach, um, custom components to it. So, like, and it's kind of designed for this, so that there would be sort of a script associated with, you know, probably have to be in the C sharp language, that'd be associated with that bush or whatever, and you're running both the Python program and the unity program on your home PC. And when you walk into the, you know, the field of view of the camera, it sees your, you're there. Uh, sins, uh, information saying the, you know, account or whatever, you know, I imagine this can count multiple people too. 
And so it's gonna send it just the simplest thing as a count, right? Like there's 2 people in it. So now scale up that bush by this much. 
And like, I bet you could get that all going. You know, you said you could be totally new for you, maybe a few hours, you know, but it's like kind of quick, I think, like to get that sort of stuff going. And if you run into any, like, you know, you can ask me about it if you just have to do this this way. 
And yeah, it seems like I, this is the best option. I really kind of do, especially if you're pretty committed to this 3D thing. Um, and, you know, it seems like you have put an investment in thinking of it that way. 
So, um, I just think it's kind of, to me, you know, I have kind of a more traditional programming background. It's communities a little bit more approachable to me than touch designer. Right. 
Like, what's weird to me about touch designer is just that I have to think in their way of doing things, and I can't just write, like, a 4 loop or something. But unity, definitely, you can. you know what I mean? But there's a shitload that goes on in it that is just using the application too. 
You know what I mean? There's ways to set up these 3D worlds and never touch a lick of code. you know. But you'll want to, in this case, because you're going to be kidding this data and responding. 
But I think that's where the main work would be, is, you know, you would have these different assets, the assets would have these component scripts attached to them, which is just kind of part of the way unity does stuff. And those things would be receiving data from this python script. And that could be changing what's going on in the world. 
I would give you a head. Yeah, and it is all gonna be pretty fast too, because all that gets compiled and everything else. You know, touch designers pretty fast too, actually, but. 
So let's say I, you know, I have a couple classes here, but let's say I go home later today and I boot up unity and I'm trying to get some sort of minimum viable product going, um, with my webcams, you know, just controlling anything on unity, like, um, just a simple tree and then the micros or something. How would you, like, go about that? Like, what's the what's the work? 
To me, just because you've already kind of built this thing in Python, like there's opens, you know, I've definitely seen projects that bring open CV directly in the unity. Now, because of the way you're thinking about this, this might not be, that might not really be. I think the way you're thinking about it might be what you want to do, where you have this Python script that's handling that part of it. 
And so what I think the steps would be, is, yes, set up that little world, find a bush asset, and then literally, like when you get something like that from the asset store, it's literally like an FBX, you know, like the film box, FBX is just a 3D file format. that has 3D in time. And you would kind of just drag that asset into the space, that asset's gonna immediately have a transform associated with it. So it's X, Y, Z position, it's a rotation, and then a scale. 
And then, literally, like, you know, kind of the way it works and I don't have it on my computer, unfortunately, is, you know, you kind of have, you know, different assets in the unity world. And when you select them, there's this kind of inspector thing panel. And in the inspector panel, you can add these different components, which could be your own script or maybe an existing one. 
So even just checking what's out there, like, I'm definitely used OSC in unity, and I'm just using some sort of, you know, add-on or whatever that just gives me literal calls to make and see sharp. But there might be something even more sophisticated than that, but that always will work too. And so the idea would be, is that, you know, you have the energy program running on your, um, on your, um, computer, you've brought in that little bush asset. 
The component script that's added to that bush asset will have access to that transform and everything about it. And you'll find examples of this. And so, And then the OSC part is you'll have a loop in that script that is essentially listening on a certain port. 
So though it's on the Python side, you're going to be sending OSC. And since it's on the same machine, you're gonna just use the local host addressed, take a port number, you know, something like 10,000 or something like that. And then on the entity side, it's going to be listening on port 10,000. 
And as soon as it gets that, it would literally just grab the transform data of the bush object and change the scale with that number. You know what I mean? Something along those lines. 
And so that would be kind of the, if you got that working, which I think you could quickly, then yeah, I think you would see right away, oh, okay, this is what I can do to kind of throw this out. And depending on what else your open CD thing can do, you know, maybe we have different types of data. you know, you mentioned poses, stuff like that. All that stuff could be particular, you know, bits of data that you're using to affect these different assets and unity. 
And so I know that it sounds abstract until you do it, but like, the kind of key ideas is that, you know, you have, because unity is not really about building 3D objects so much. There is something in it, which you can do that, but generally, you know, some of my design, some complex 3D. geometry, blender, for instance, and then export it as FPX and then FBX and then bring that into unity. But then the key idea is, is that once it's in there, any sort of script I attached to that object now has access to its properties. 
And so you literally would, you know, you know, kind of a 1st run test would be, it's like, you know, this bush is really, you know, maybe you scale it down to very small and then one person walks into the camera so that you're open CB script now is gonna send it, that there's a person there. And then you literally just have logic that says, you know, bring up the scale by this amount. like, you know what I mean? It's like maybe you have it scaled down 10 to 10% of the size. when one person comes in, it goes up 10%. 
If there's 2 people, it goes up 20%. something like that. And that should be kind of, you know, like I think if you got that kind of connectivity, right, you would see, you know, that it's just gonna be the work of like deciding what you want it to do. And some considerations about how you're really gonna get this, you know, you need to, at some point you want a test to see, can I be on, like, see you guest and send these types of UDP messages because it's possible that they, I don't think they're firewalling them, but they could. 
But that's kind of, I worry about that later, because you can make all this happen on one machine. All right? And then what you've set up will work across multiple machines because it's just a matter of changing the IP address. 
Exactly. So, yeah, I would try that, man. Because, like, yeah, just get the new, yeah. newest version of Unity 6 and, I mean, it's pretty straightforward. 
Like you create a new project, you create a default 3D world and you're already sitting there. And of course, there's a, you know, you know, you have to get up to speed on it, get used to it or whatever, you know, but I think it's pretty accessible. And there's way more documentation on mine, you know, to help out with that sort of stuff. versus touch designer, which is so new, especially in this space. 
Yeah, and you have to kind of just watch tutorials and copy what people do and often they're not really explaining what the hell that's doing. No, believe me, I know. Yeah. 
But I feel like with unity, it's true. There's so much, like, really well developed tutorials and, um, and again, just that rich asset store where, you know, you're not gonna be, because, you know, this is this is a big project. You know, there's no way you're going to be able to like kind of design all of these 3D objects and where they're not. 
And so that's the other great thing about unity is there's really cool assets, a lot of free. Some might, some might cost a little bit, but they're like kind of pre-built things that do stuff. You know, like, so agents, even, like, you can get little animals that will have kind of AI rules that make them run around and you can be affecting those. 
So it's like if all of a sudden there's 5 people in the room. I don't know, maybe the animals start speeding up too or whatever, there'll be different types of assets that have different types of properties and parameters that you'll be able to change with this data. And I think, you know, if you really want to be spread out like this and have data come in different places, this OSC thing is the way, you know, because it's just kind of the way to send data on a network, kind of in a very fast way and communicate between applications. 
Um, I don't want to, it's really, it's confusing because it's called open sound control, but it's much more general than that. Right. I think it was just kind of introduced in the kind of digital audio workstation world maybe originally or something. 
Because see that, you know, you could use it in Ableton. I mean, you can, you know, one thing we do in theirs, you have MoCap tracking going on where I'm just tracking like an object moving around and I can use that. I can send that data to Ableton, VOSC, and turn a knob on a reverb or something so that when I move it up and down, it's like, you know, crap like that. 
So cool. It's very ubiquitous, though, a sea stuff. And, uh, it's kind of the main, you know, until people need to have, um, you know, a very robust sort of network communication. 
It's the way to go. You know, like if you're actually doing online playing, you're not using OSC anymore. It's going to be a TCPIP state full connection that's keeping track what their packets have been sent or not. 
But this is simpler than that. You just say, here's the address, here's the data, send it. And on the other hand, it just listens, gets it, does its thing. 
And so that's all there is to it. And I don't think, I think if you're already kind of diving into this open CB world, you're not going to find the SC thing and it's too challenging. Yeah, but thank you. 
It's nice to know that it exists in what it's capable of, and then, you know, that it might be an happier that I pursue. Um, Yeah, and it's definitely, you know, if you haven't worked in like a 3D environment, like you're gonna do much, it's, you know, it's definitely a very useful skill, I think, as well. Oh, certainly. 
Well, thank you. Thank you so, so much. I seriously can't thank you enough for